Ok...so I only have one question since you missed my point about the benefit of believing evolution over creation, and that is why is faith in something you cannot prove scientifically so unattractive?
Ecc. 3:9-11
What does the worker gain from his toil? I have seen the burden God has laid on men. He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.
I also think that understanding life is hugely important. I'm actually studying for my certification in personal training and the first part of it is basically biology. Revisiting this material (since I haven't studied science since 2001) has been fascinating. It has cemented my views on Creationism. Now let’s talk statistics. There are over 100 trillion cells in the human body. Each has its own purpose and performs several functions at the same time. If we were machines we would have that many working parts. Statistically speaking, the more working parts you have, the greater percent chance for something to go wrong, yet our bodies (for the most part) run extremely well. Now if we just "accidentally" got to this level of sophistication through a series of ongoing mutations and evolutions over millions of years, taking place in billions of people – given the opportunity for failure, statistically speaking, there should be no uniformity amongst us.
And I certainly did not mean to purport evolution as a religion. I'm just saying that beyond "understanding life" there is no value to it, whereas there is benefit in believing in a sovereign God - if it is indeed true. But therein lies the rub. "He has set eternity in their hearts..." You have to think in terms of eternity for even God to be relevant.
If you can live long enough, you can put enough effort into learning everything there is to learn about physical life, so I will quote Ecclesiastes again – because Solomon was one of the smartest people in history and he also happens to have written a book in the Bible.
Ecc. 1:12-18:
I, the Teacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. I devoted myself to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under heaven. What a heavy burden god has lain on men! I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind. What is twisted cannot be straightened; what is lacking cannot be counted. I thought to myself, “Look, I have grown and increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge.” Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is chasing after the wind. For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.
Then he sums some things up in the last chapter:
12:11-14:
The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails – given by one Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
I quote from Ecclesiastes not because I’m a Christian and it’s our knee-jerk reaction to do so in these situations, but because Solomon was extremely intelligent, wise, and his kingdom was immense. He worked hard and partied hard, all to find out that everything he put his energy into was meaningless. All that mattered was serving God. I present Solomon of an example to study, merely an alternative to consider through the lens of learning from other’s experiences. You can know everything about physical life but in the end it means nothing. I list the entire book of Ecclesiastes as recommended reading. I don't have a website for it but you could probably google it.
I wasn’t accusing you of splitting hairs about the definition of “theory.” I was saying it was wrong. In science, a hypothesis is a theory until it can be proven through testing, yielding the same results over and over. Only at that point does it become a law. There maybe some theories that have significant correlations, but to become law they still have to be repetitively tested with common results.
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- Hello! My name is Lindsey Pollard and I am a Certified Personal Trainer. I have a passion for fitness and an active lifestyle. All my life I've been an athlete. Softball was my first love, basketball was my long-term relationthip, and now I play golf. Being familiar with the movements of these sports helps me understand the importance of being fit both now, and for the future. I am a Christian, and that is the premise of the name of my business - Freedom Fitness Personal Training. I chose this name because so many are in bondage to what their mind tells them they can't do. But the Lord gives us strength to overcome all kinds of things in life, through His grace, mercy, and the gift of salvation through His Son Jesus Christ. FREE YOUR BODY - FREE YOUR MIND - FREE YOUR SOUL. Increasing your fitness level will give benefit you by reducing stress, increasing self-confidence, and ultimately becoming a well-balanced individual. I would LOVE to help you define your fitness goals and implement a specific plan to help you accomplish them! Contact me anytime for locations and rates.
2 comments:
Faith is unattractive to me, personally, for a lot of reasons that I won't go into here because this is supposed to be a discourse on Evolution.
"Faith in something that I can't prove scientifically" is unattractice in this situation because it requires us to deny things that we can prove scientifically, and I don't see any good reason to do that. It was OK for Biblical people to think superstitiously about creation because based on the knowledge they had available to them, why wouldn't they believe those things? Its becoming less and less OK for us to do it. Maybe it wasn't OK for them to do it either. They certainly weren't unintelligent, after all, but essentially all people have ever done is create deities when they reach the limit of their understanding. That may have been convenient but it doesn't make it true.
The problem with the logic of Creationism is that there really is no logic when you look at it objectively. You're starting with your conclusion. Science goes like this: "These are our observations and verifiable facts, what conclusions, if any, can we draw from these?" and Creation "science" goes like this: "The Bible is the conclusion, what evidence can we dig up to support it?" Can you not see what a fallacy that is? That's not logic that anyone would accept for any other argument, yet religion gets a free pass for some reason. Fear of death, I guess.
No one's arguing that the human body is a piece of crap. Its damn near miraculous, for lack of a better word. But if it were divinely designed, I would wager that there would be some huge differences, ie tailbones, appendixes, wisdom teeth, and a more workable birth canal to name a few. Whales still have hind leg bones, if you can believe it! I don't claim to be a master on the topic and I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be able to give more knowledgable examples, leastways I'm sure it would take about 10 minutes on Google to find more.
You said you're not suggesting that evolution is a religion but when you make statements like "I'm just saying that beyond "understanding life" there is no value to it, whereas there is benefit in believing in a sovereign God" you're certainly implying a comparison. I was just saying that if anyone looks to evolution for spiritual purposes, they're bound to be disappointed.
I've read the book of Ecclesiastes. Several times actually. When I was about 16, I went through a phase where I was somewhat obsessed with it. That being said, while I can imagine the possibility that the universe could have been started by some force that is currently unexplained and unexplainable, or a "god" if you will, I'm certainly an Atheist where the Judeo-Christian god is concerned. So quoting the nhilistic wisdom of a sheperd king, from thousands of years ago who didn't know what a star was, and is regarded as the "wisest man in history" only because HE wrote that HE was the wisest, doesn't hold much weight with me. Which is not to say that he didn't pen some beautiful passages. The one you quoted has always been a favorite of mine, though nowadays, to me, it implies that Solomon was somewhat academically lazy.
I can simply no longer believe that a book is true because that book says its true. Islam provides all the same reasons for belief in creationism as Christianity but I'm sure you wouldn't agree with them that their book is true even though their book says its true, would you?
My biggest problem with mixing science and faith is that faith tends to encourage people to be inflexible and unteachable. People are afraid to change their opinions for fear that being wrong will have them burning for all eternity. Science, to my understanding, requires us to be fearless, objective, and free of any superstition. We also have to accept that we will get stuff wrong and be willing to give us beliefs if they don't hold up, no matter how special they are to us. Nature will come out how she is if we just allow her to.
This is fun, and easily the most we have ever talked.
ps. "Gravitational Theory" is our explanation of the phenomenon we know as 'gravity'.
It is a law of gravity that if you drop an object here, it will fall to the ground, but it is Gravitational Theory that explains how and why this occurs.
Gravity is a law in that it can be talked about tersely, but we understand and explain it through a theory. Look it up. I will bet you a million dollars that I am right.
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